A few more thoughts…

I still agree with what Julie wrote in the original post. I didn’t mean, however, that kids who may be acting AGE appropriately should be allowed to act PLACE INappropriately. This is why I don’t take my 3 year old to a fancy restaurant or a classical concert. I know she doesn’t yet have the impulse control, and to place her in a situation that is beyond her ability to sit still or be quiet for THAT LONG of a time is just setting her up for failure. However, I don’t feel that it is wrong of me to take her to a less fancy restaurant so that I can introduce her to the concept of public decorum. If she gets a bit too rowdy, my husband or I will take her for a walk to look at the pictures or other items of interest, or, if she needs more space to run, outdoors to let off some steam.

Scott-the-first-time-dad commented about not having to worry about children being overlooked due to their power as consumers. I think that the attention children are getting as potential spenders of their parents’ money IS a form of neglect. Parents may lavish their kids with stuff, stuff, stuff and in doing so ignore the kids’ REAL needs for genuine love and attention and guidance. As for the comment about some adults not wanting someone breastfeeding next to their salad, those adults should stay home and eat their meals, as many states now guarantee the right of a baby to eat in public (e.g. breastfeed). Do YOU want to eat that steak in a stall in the bathroom? I didn’t think so. What is so offensive about a baby being nourished in the most natural way possible? All the women I know who breastfeed in public do so discreetly, so even if a woman WERE to breastfeed within your visual vicinity, you probably wouldn’t see a thing. And if she WEREN’T breastfeeding, you’d probably hear a lot of hollering from the little one.

And I do feel that public attitude towards breastfeeding is a valid point to discuss regarding discrimination against children because the current attitude at large (e.g. finding breastfeeding in public offensive) withholds the right of a baby to receive FOOD when and where he/she needs it. Breastfeeding is a social justice issue. If you care about the poor, you should care about breastfeeding and NOT contribute to a public attitude that impedes the right of a child to be fed breastmilk.

One last thought. As a person of color, I don’t find that using the word “discrimination” is inappropriate when it comes to violating the rights of children. If fact, I think it’s very fitting. And with that, since I don’t want to rewrite War and Peace here, I’ll go back to my mommyblogging.

I agree that children need opportunities to both offer and receive hospitality (in the church and outside as well), and I think education and socialization are also central aspects of including children in public and church life. Children learn manners and social behavior from eating meals with adults. Children learn skills, values, and work ethics from helping and working alongside adults. And children learn how to model faithful Christian lives from spending time with Christian adults. Not to mention that just maybe adults can learn something from spending time with children as well.

First, begin with repentance. Humility requires that we start by examining ourselves. Have we pulled the log out of our own eye? How much of our attitude towards our children is guided by Christian faith and practice, and how much by cultural norms and romantic notions? In other words, have we made idols out of our children, out of ‘childhood’ itself? Are some of these people reacting not to our children but to our idolatry?

Second, we need to hear what Julie is saying and be aware that the presence of children in public life, in all their messiness, is not a matter of mere taste but is a critical feature of healthy social life, and we need to live accordingly. To that end, I’m not sure that rights-based language like ‘discrimination’ is the way we ought to go. I understand why we use it, but it is expressive of that very same cultural matrix of individualism that is the root of the very attitude that we’re so concerned with in this discussion. Using this kind of language tends to reinforce the very beast that we need to be starving to death.

There is a wonderful opportunity here for us to be theologically reflective and self-critical about our pattern of thinking in a way that brings life to our entire society. We can’t expect to raise children who value fidelity to the kingdom of God above the culture if we ourselves only present them with a vision of the kingdom that is couched in the language that undermines what we’re trying to accomplish. We need new language, and the new way of thinking about joy and justice that goes with it.

That new language should express a fuller experience and understanding of joy and justice than our culture possesses, language that finds its roots in the gospel rather than the culture. Early Christians essentially ‘created’ new words like agape (love) and laos (people), investing these orphan words with new meaning derived entirely from their experience of life in Christ, and we can do the same. New language gives us a way of resisting the culture’s corrosive effects on our way of thinking, and gives us a tool for bearing witness to the deeper hope for healthy human life that blooms out of the gospel.

Third, take pains to create places of hospitality. Do this with our children. In fact, if our kids are old enough, let them take the lead in suggesting ways to open a hospitable space in our lives. As adults, experience has taught us to be careful and guarded in how we approach the Other. Those safeguards keep us from harm, but also from good. By encouraging our children to begin from an affirmative stance towards other people our kids can in turn be our teachers, leading us back to a softness of heart while at the same time we walk alongside them to give them encouragement and security as they learn (and remind us in the process) what it means to reach out without exaggerated fears or weary self-centeredness. Here we obey, and lead our children in obeying, the biblical exhortation to overcome evil with good.

I’m thinking about this last point as I read Kim’s comment about the situation in her church. I’m curious, Kim, if you and your husband have approached the congregation about your feelings, if you have suggested any opportunities for change, and what the response has been on their part. Hospitality in our churches (whatever their configuration or context) isn’t satisfied by just having coffee and tea available, wouldn’t you all agree?

Good heavens, I’ve written a Russian novel here. Thanks, Julie, for introducing this whole matter, because how we embrace our children in public life is often a barometer to how we embrace anyone else who is Other. It’s good to be sensitive to the state of such attitudes in our culture.

To finish on an entirely different subject, I think that it would be fun to talk about how our families are celebrating the rhythm of seasonal change. Since we’re heading into autumn now, with the big holiday season ahead, a post on this might prompt a timely and helpful conversation. What do you think, Julie?

Cristi :]

Scott – Discrimination is discrimination no matter who it is against. No one group owns that term no matter what emotional weight it may carry. (this is a real issue as around here some of the African Americans were attempting to force Hispanics to stop using the term. It lead to the churches have some good reconcilation and understanding talks for everyone). Discrimination is defined as “treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit” Barring children from a rollercoaster is a safety issue (as is barring an adult from the ball pit), but barring them from a beach is a preference issue and it just displays the selfishness of out society to always get our way imho.

I am for healthy dialog and don’t expect anyone to agree with me. I am a newbie dad and certainly recognize that I may be off. I appreciate your contributions and I am sure that you welcome input from those that don’t agree with you without taking offense.

That said, I do think that throwing around strong words like “discrimination” is just over the top in this situation. I don’t go into women’s restrooms, but I don’t think I am being discriminated against. I go to area’s designated for men. I also don’t jump into the little “balls” at McDonalds, but alas, I do not cry discrimination. There is nothing wrong with saying this is an adult friendly area, just as there is nothing wrong with saying a place is a kid zone.

If there is a lack of places for you to take your children, then move somewhere else. There are plenty of options for adults and children to commingle here in the South, but to call this discrimination is to cheapen those instance where real discrimination exists. We have experience with that in the South as well and my guess is my friends down at the excellent Civil Rights Museum in Birmingham would be either amused or infuriated by the use of discrimination in this case.

Julie – I wonder if it doesn’t seem to be that offensive to have some places ‘child-free’ while, of course, having a ‘no handicap’ sign put up might be. Handicap isn’t something that can be trained out of someone. It is what it is. An unruly child can and should be trained into better public behavior. A mom CAN take the child out of the room to nurse if it does offend some. It might be inconvenient — it actually IS inconvenient as I nursed all three of my children — but, it’s possible. Race is another characteristic that is what it is.

I’m not saying that I’m a fan of places that say ‘no children’. Frankly, they’d not get my business because I prefer to be with my children. But … I can’t say that it meets the same kind of discrimination as would be for race, gender, religion or handicap.

I keep going back to we, as parents, might need to take that as a sign that maybe we have been too relaxed with our children’s public behavior. Maybe we’ve all taken the stand of “they’re just kids for goodness sakes” way too often not realizing how very uncomfortable we’ve allowed the chaos to make the experience for those around us.

Michelle